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All my work's been really personal.

I tell personal stories.

Putting yourself out there is hard, so you never know what's going to happen.

But, um, I think, you know, over the years and the stories and the narratives that I tell, um, I become really confident.

You know like, who I am.

I think it's, it's, I, I really wouldn't have it any other way.

Having these stories and having been really truthful to who I am and where I come from.

Um, and you know, my likes and dislikes, you know, I I can connect to, you know, different types of people.

There's people who can connect to me.

There's something about this that feels like it's actually made to function as a usable space for a community, for, for a group of people who wanted to create some shelter or some gathering space.

There's something that feels so practical, utilitarian about it.

At the same time, something so, um, uh, natural, um, and humble.

I always feel like when my, my main medium is narrative or storytelling.

This 'Next Door Sky' is, uh, a piece that I wrote a few years back about um, how, how we are divided by walls.

But, but the sky that we look up is, is the same.

And so that was trying to sort of portray that in, through my music; and Eduardo thought it might be cool to bring that piece to his show.

He thinks there's some, uh, cool-.

I don't think.

There is.

Okay there is.

Okay.

When we first walked through and, um, I ended up in the same place you did.

And then you could start feeling the gathering happening and, and the beautiful music that was performed during the opening.

I mean, those are the things that I think Eduardo has such a great touch with.

And, and, you know, that understanding of the intimacy, that can be part of the potential of any artwork.

And you see this in this work.

You know, it's, it's, it's a very simple, kind of like three ring triangle design.

Um, but you know, because of the sand and how slow your, you know, your walk through it, you're..., I feel like you're able to experience the work, you know, at a, at a relatively slow pace where you, you know, you kind of engage with it more and engage with the walls and, you know, like even the stitchings and you kind of start working even the sound of the wind, kind of like blowing through them.

And I liked the noises.

I liked the material.

I like the waviness of it, I liked the handmade, um, uh, aspect, which was something really important when I was working with the installers.

Um, you know, how simple it can be, but how safe it could feel.

Almost empathy the piece creates the sincerity.

And in a way, I wonder if like the path was meant for all of us to gather together and for all of us to go through that shared experience and then come together as a community.

I mean, that's one of the things that I think is very poetic about the piece.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks.

It was a nice walk to get to the center and just kind of like walking up the steps and sitting there for a minute, for a minute I just kind of like taking it all in was, um, you know, it was great.

It was something that, it was a nice surprise to see everything come together.

It feels communal, it feels, um like not just one or two people would be entering here, but but hundreds of people would be entering through and using this space.

And each of these, you know, they, they each have this very human scale to them.

Something that they're made to sleep on these.

So each of these feels like it sort of maybe is something that an individual or a family might sort of contribute to the whole.

And yet as a whole, it feels Societal.

Desert X is a really ambitious project.

Desert X is an onsite biennial in the Coachella Valley.

It's the third edition here.

The important contribution of Desert X is this notion of place and how the desert really inspires artists.

I mean, you can go back into history and, and understand the power of the desert, generation after generation.

It's really interesting to create a museum without walls.

It's it spans about 200 miles of different projects kind of throughout the Valley.

I didn't think I'd ever be here if it weren't for this work.

Um and, and that's like, that's interesting and that's, and it's not just incidental.

It's not just an accident that that happens.

Like that's the value that places like Desert X are able to provide.

It made me think about, you know, the desert and my connection to it.

And, um, and I think a lot of, a lot of people who migrate from Mexico, have that experience.

There are so many different ways that art can relate to place.

I mean, here in these works, the artist leaves everything exactly the same and just switches out the content - leaves the form exactly as it is.

And so you have pretty much an ordinary billboard, but just a slight change.

You know, there's a real contrast between a work like this and what Eduardo is trying to do.

What Eduardo is doing is really just taking the materials from nature itself: the jute, the rope, the mats, the wood he uses, all of that are just the kind of materials that you would find in a desert, not too dissimilar from this one.

Organic materials.

I mean, these billboards that you see around, they really reference the aspect of humans that have already experienced the capitalist revolution.

And, uh, Eduardo is taking us backwards back in time to something.

Um, prior to that, it's almost as if the journey into the desert to cross a border is also a journey back into some more essential element of what it means to be human.

Yeah.

I think the landscape kind of gives you that, you know, helps with that moment of suspense, just kind of slowly walking through it.

I like, I like the soft sand walking through it.

It's such a, you know, it has a really like a nice pace, and I don't know if it's just me, but it is a little bit exhausting when you finally get here.

I liked that it, it becomes a little bit camouflaged in the environment where you walk up to it and, you know, instead of having something that feels heavy, it is very light.

It feels like the wind can blow it away.

Um, you know, it's very, it's temporal in that sense, which I really enjoy You know, I was telling my mother that, um, you know, I was like, well, you know, it kind of, I'm doing this project in the desert and I, I kind of want to share this story and she's like, 'Ugghh', she's like, 'Ay, mi...'.

Like, she's just kind of, you know, it's a, it's a kind of a, you know, it's, I dunno if it's embarrassing or not, but I was like, you know, it is what it is like, this is our story.

You know, my mom crossed the desert illegally.

Really?- Yeah And so--.

Oh, Passenger's about that.

Yeah...So it's a little--.

That's so cool...!

But she always wants me to mention that she's now an American citizen.

Great.

But she, um, she crossed the desert, um, you know, my, my father, uh, kind of arranged for her to come and meet and meet him here.

And, you know, and just kind of like her story about crossing the desert, like what that meant, you know, how scared she was, you know, excited as well.

She knew what she was leaving and kind of, you know, dreamt and hoped for something better.

And that kind of kept her going the unknown, which is, you know, it's kind of a great, um, you know, great story, you know, they're super happy here.

They kind of came with the idea that, you know, they wanted to give their children a better life.

It's cool up here.

It's a nice hour.

Yeah.

yeah, it's magic.

I like the collaboration of working with somebody who is a master in their craft and the collaborative aspect of bringing out contemporary elements to, to what they do, um, is really interesting.

You know, I'm very, hands-on like I like painting and drawing and I like kind of making my own things.

So I relate to what they do.

In that process of the making or the makers is actually where the alchemy happens really.

Right?

When you think about the work, the material that he used for the installation, and that's, again, that's what I go back to it because that's, I think where the success in the work is you feel that inherently as you walk through it The studio that I wanted to work with is, um, just outside of Guadalajara in a small town outside of Ciudad Guzmán.

And they've been working on these mats for many generations.

It's something that is, you know, slowly kind of fading away and, you know, and helping them kind of support their practices.

I went there and I saw the mats.

I thought they were beautiful.

I needed them custom sized.

So, you know, for, for this work.

And, um, and I said, you know, can you make, you know, I'd love to buy some mats and, you know, a certain size they're like, yeah, of course, how many do you need?

And I was like 350.

They're like, what?!

Like, yeah, totally.

Like it takes us like three days to make one that's like, she's like, but don't worry.

We'll get, you know, we'll get everybody involved.

And, uh, they made it happen.

Yeah.

I've always liked working with artisans.

Um, and this work is a reflection of that.

Visually, like the simplicity of the work was, was important and just kind of being a little bit true to the materials and speaking and how just, you know, placements and, and, you know, the design of the installation can kind of tell a narrative.

I was really interested to know what their process and really get to know the people that I work with.

And that's always inspiring.

Can you hear me?-- Umh, come again.

Can you hear me now?-- Yeah.-- Okay, cool.

So this artist just cuts up, uh, ordinary materials.

Like this is simply, um, I think plastic that's used for water jugs and, um, and then stitches them together in a kind of like quilt-like pattern.

One thing I like about this is, uh, like a patchwork quilt or something like that.

Uh, you start to really feel the the history of the object, like, even though it's, you know, generally orange, like the subtle differences in color, and then the way you can see these, um, like the labels on some of them, it kind of gives you just a very subtle sense of the life that this material lived, you know, halfway around the world.

And there's a kind of informality to it, too.

He's not aiming for this sort of perfect, um, tile.

He really kind of keeps it feeling very folkish, and that gives it this real handmade feel.

And there's something that's like really powerfully African about this.

I feel like, um, in very, very subtle, but yet powerful ways.

This feels like something that's not from here.

You know, not from place.

I love that this one has like much more texture to it much because of the various colors and the striations, those stripes in the individual squares.

This one tends to be a little bit more, um, just simple uniform blocks of color.

It's sculpted out of, um, the things that you would kind of imagine, you know, every household might use in some capacity; and it's impressive that you have this, something that has this sort of monumental sculptural quality that also feels so handmade.

Like usually those two things don't go hand in hand, right?

That like the individual stitching, this was clearly done by like people weaving together little squares of plastic and, and to have like such scale for something that, that, that is so sort of micro-- Personal?

Personal, right.

It's something that there's a powerful juxtaposition in this work.

It would have a very, very different feel if this was like made out of like ceramic tile.

Right?

And this was like, you know, be beautiful, same beautiful colors.

Um, but it would, it would not feel quite as intimate.

Like you feel the, like the history of all the individual families, they might've used these objects, you know, you feel the, the hand of the artists and the helpers who created this thing, Trying to tell that narrative and kind of make connections, you know, with people who have similar backgrounds and, you know, these mats are just, you know, they're typical mats in Mexico that people sleep on, they carry them.

They're light.-- Really?-- Yeah.

So it's like, a-- I didn't know that--, It became like this whole metaphor for that trip and that journey.

I liked at the end, how, um, you know, how those materials just kind of spoke for themselves and the texture, the texture it already kind of had and how to respect that, to you know, to have these ideas come across.

And even the distressed quality of it, makes it feel all the more, uh, real.

Like these, these mats look like they've been used.

Or they would be used.

I wanted it to have a maze, and I wanted it to have this center area where, um, you know, activations can happen and have more of this kind of like dreamlike experience with having people come and perform and do, um, do different types of activations.

Um, there was a kid yesterday kind of running through it.

It made me really happy.

You know, I met this other kid who, you know, kind of wanted to introduce himself and it was kind of a great, uh, we had a great conversation.

He was, he was really moved by the work.

Um, you know, he was telling me his, you know, his own personal story about his parents coming to this country, um, you know, similar situation to, to my history.

Listening to people's stories and, um, being receptive to that is like something I really enjoy.

Yes.-- Beautiful.-- Thank you.

Thank you.-- We were just saying it's like it's breathing.--.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.-- It's like alive.

- -This is awesome.-- I like the idea of how it looks like it's, it feels like it's breathing.

I want to, maybe I should film the hallways.

Yeah,-- Yeah-- I took a video of just the walls moving.

You're trying to put me out of a job.

You're Fired...!

I like referencing the viewer.

And I think I liked that the passenger is the viewer.

Individuals get to walk in and, you know, make decisions and walk out or how they experience the piece.

So, um, I liked, I liked the idea that the title made reference to that.

I feel a little bit disoriented.

I'm not sure where I'm going, but yet it feels like a safe space.

And then you could see the light, there must be something going on here.

And then you have that sense of relief.

Like you've arrived.

You know, so many artworks are about creating a distance between you and the art.

You know, like we saw Indian Land or the Billboards, there's this real separation.

There's the viewer, and then there's this object which is kind of a screen that you view; but this really immerses you.

It kind of, you enter into it.

I think that's why so many people really, really love being in here.

Why it's just so popular.

The beauty of the work is of approaching it, uh, not knowing really what it is initially.

And then you find that entry point.

At that moment, things become very intimate, and it closes down on you in a very beautiful way, but with a path forward.

And that, that implies a kind of journey that I think Eduardo was looking for in this piece.

It was really simple metaphor to, to how you start a journey and how it can be scary and the choices you have to take and make.

In a way, the maze functions like good architecture.

Your body knows how to flow through it, instinctually and how you get funneled through.

And that's what was so brilliant about the piece.

When you're, when you're really walking through, you're looking at the materials that he chose and the reasonings behind that, uh, it just created this kind of, um, immediate connection to the body, to the mind.

It brought you in, took you into a different space completely.

Again, the beauty of the maze is that it opens up.

And then there you are, in this really beautiful place.

I like the idea of the journey and travelers, and kind of talking a little bit about my migration in this area, especially, um, California, the desert.

A lot of people's journeys have this, you know, this is kind of like maze and feeling a little bit lost and walking through it, getting somewhere.

And, you know, it's such a confusing process as well.

Like all the legality around it, too, in the politics around it.

Um, which I don't want to talk about politics.

You edit all that out, but-- Even though this work is not explicitly political, it almost brushes up against politics, you could say.

It's almost as if, um, it evokes the ideas of the border wall or the idea of illegal immigration.

Topics which are extremely loaded within society.

Um, but it doesn't make any kind of statement about it.

It doesn't say that this or that policy is good or bad.

I don't like arguing about politics more than anything, but I focused on my interpretation and my stories from my mother.

Um, you know, who, who went through this The works, they don't need me to stand right next to them and talk about these stories and these narratives, I feel like people bring their own narratives to them.

And I think it's so charged with these ideas of a migration and journey that, you know, people bring, you know, they have their own backgrounds and they bring their own stories to it.

That's a very meaningful way for art to engage with politics, to be able to, to, to shine a spotlight on the activity, without making judgments.

When you put something out in the world, you almost have no control of what's going to happen, which is exciting.

The work transcends politics, you know, thinking about a 3-dimensional sculpture in just kind of the vastness of the space, um, seemed, seemed like a challenge.

And also, um, you know, uh, a challenge that I kind of, uh, you know, like like put to myself was, you know, working outside of my comfort zone and materials, um, was what's something, you know, I didn't want to do something made out of ceramic tile or anything.

Um, I liked the idea of working with new people.

Is there anything else you want to mention about Eduardo?

I just, that I love his work and, you know, he's a, he's a very important artist.

I sort of learned about him being involved with Desert X and gave Eduardo an opportunity to really, uh, uh, you know, expand his practice in a way that really dealt with site in a, in a very interesting context.

My projects are, are they're there.

They don't end.

They just kind of keep growing.

I think I do more research.

I meet more people, you know, the same kind of ideas are there, but, um, you know, they just kind of keep accumulating.

There's no, um, you know, there's, there's no end to anything.

To really get inside the world of an artwork, you actually need to let it work on you.

And therefore, I'm not going to tell anybody that they need to spend any amount of time.

And if they want to only get a two second experience, they can, but they'll basically remain within their own world in two seconds.

Once you start to spend more time and like, let a work, just work on you, you start to enter into its world and it starts to have these efffects on you.

Like, wow, the, the feeling of scale, like, wow, the feeling of uncanniness in front of a work like this, those are the kinds of reflections that, um, often will take a little bit of time.

You could just, if you look at it for two seconds, you might say, Oh, this is a one-liner, this is a, a little turn of phrase.

Um, but I think that most works of art, will pay back to you more, the more time you give to it.

Yeah.

Art is just the ability to create something that shifts the patterns of thinking and seeing, and feeling.

And this really does alter the way you experience the world.

It really does make you think you're in some place that that's special.

That's different from everything else.

You're seeing this work without many people here, and maybe it's something to do with this light.

I don't know, but I'm, it's important to notice that there's something just impressive about it.

There's something that's powerful about it, even as just a kind of collage as just a interesting surface and, and, and a form that's in the desert, um, even before you get to any of the symbolism.

And then when you add on that extra layer about culture and history and his personal story, then you realize it's a very impactful work.

I like this idea of setting up the situation where, where you kind of like walk around, you kind of wander around and before you get to a place where you're kind of like sit down, relax, you know, be able to kind of like dream or experience something and maybe have you changed, like changed the way you think for just a split second before you walk out.