
E8 | Nashville Brick Cottage | Southern Hospitality
Season 46 Episode 8 | 23m 42sVideo has Closed Captions
The big reveal of the renovation of the 1920s East Nashville cottage.
It's moving day in Nashville, as the renovation of the 1920s brick cottage wraps up. Homeowner Adam gives Kevin O'Connor a tour of the first floor. Meanwhile, homeowner Rachel gives Tom Silva a tour upstairs. Richard Trethewey is in the basement looking at arguably the biggest upgrade of this build.. Jenn Nawada and Rachel plant a new tree with landscape designer Max Finkbeiner.
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Funding for THIS OLD HOUSE is provided by The Home Depot and Renewal By Andersen.

E8 | Nashville Brick Cottage | Southern Hospitality
Season 46 Episode 8 | 23m 42sVideo has Closed Captions
It's moving day in Nashville, as the renovation of the 1920s brick cottage wraps up. Homeowner Adam gives Kevin O'Connor a tour of the first floor. Meanwhile, homeowner Rachel gives Tom Silva a tour upstairs. Richard Trethewey is in the basement looking at arguably the biggest upgrade of this build.. Jenn Nawada and Rachel plant a new tree with landscape designer Max Finkbeiner.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipKevin: When we arrived in East Nashville, Tennessee, the renovation of this 1920s cottage kicked off in a dramatic way.
Man: Go ahead.
Kevin: After nine months, it's finally time to reveal this updated family home filled with Southern charm and to bid farewell to a city that has welcomed us with open arms.
♪♪ Man: Ahh.
That's it.
♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ Javier: Lyn, we got another one done.
Can you believe this?
Lyn: Yes.
It's been a great project.
We moved that house to the backyard, put it right back on the foundation.
Javier: And it fit.
Lyn: And it fit perfectly.
But it's time to turn it over to these people and show them what we've done and give them the keys.
Where are they?
Because they're 10 minutes late.
Javier: I have no idea.
[ All cheering ] Kevin: Alright, alright.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely did that.
Tom: Alright.
Kevin: Well, either way, I would say cheers to that, right?
Man: Alright!
Kevin: Bring it in there.
You could really work up a thirst running this thing.
Richard: For sure.
Tom: For sure.
Kevin: So, end of a project and a lot of work by a lot of people, although we did have some fun along the way taking in the sights of Nashville.
Jenn: Took in the sights.
I mean, we got to go for a tour at the Grand Ole Opry and met Trisha Yearwood.
It was amazing.
Richard: And I got to sing at The Station Inn with some of Nashville's best musicians.
Kevin: A one-hit wonder, Richard.
Richard: It's a short career.
Tom: I got to spend the day with Vince Gill.
He showed me all around Nashville.
He was a real gentleman, and a wonderful day.
Kevin: And we got to tour the city in a red Caddy convertible.
Jenn: Yes, we did.
Kevin: And, Adam and Rachel, thank you, 'cause we had one thing left on our bucket list and you delivered.
Adam: Can't leave Nashville without enjoying some transpotainment.
Kevin: Alright, Well, I'll toast to that.
So cheers, everybody.
Jenn: Cheers, y'all.
Adam: Here we go.
Bring it in.
[ Cheering ] Richard: Awesome.
Kevin: Alright.
Tom: Alright.
Kevin: Thank you, Gentry.
Good man.
Jenn: Thanks, Gentry.
Kevin: Whoo.
Lyn: Now we know where you've been and why you're late.
Kevin: We couldn't resist.
We needed to do one more thing.
But we're here now.
Javier: Adam, Rachel, it's a big day today.
Rachel: We're excited.
We can't wait to show you guys everything inside.
Kevin: Alright.
Lyn: Alright.
So let's get out of those clothes and changed.
Richard: Gladly.
Kevin: Yes, ma'am.
Yes, ma'am.
Javier: Bye-bye, guys.
♪♪ Adam: Alright, Kevin.
Kevin: Ooh.
You got AC.
Adam: Cooler in here, right?
We got to thank Richard for that.
Kevin: Very cool in here.
Wow, look at this.
Adam: Not bad, right?
Kevin: Not bad at all.
Adam: So, if you recall, the room was fairly similar to this before.
Kevin: Yeah.
Adam: Not a ton of changes.
New windows.
Um, did a lot of work over here.
This had some plaster treatment with some wood, sconces, kind of cleaned that up a little bit, took all the paint off the mantel, fireplace, cleaned that up, straightened it.
Kevin: Focal point of the room.
Adam: We plan on using the room just like we did before.
Um, so really happy with how it turned out.
Kevin: Yeah, you should be.
Beautiful paint colors, the gray, with some of the other colors in the house, new furnishings.
Feels very homey.
Adam: All we had to do was completely tear the room apart, fix it, and build it exactly like it was before.
Kevin: We've done that before.
Adam: You recall this -- this old phone box was... Kevin: I do.
Adam: ...in a hallway over here.
Kevin: By the old stairs, and you guys said you wanted to save it, and there it is.
Adam: Yeah.
It's funky.
I think we're gonna put a doorbell in it.
Kevin: Nice.
Adam: Kevin, you remember the old dining room?
Kevin: I do, although very different now, huh?
Adam: Very different.
Kevin: Oh, you kept the old doors, right?
Adam: Those used to be white.
What a pain in the butt that is to strip, but Rachel and I did that.
Kevin: Now you know.
Adam: Now we know.
Um, if you recall, upstairs, we had that old paneling.
We turned that into wainscoting.
Kevin: Yeah, completely changes the vibe of the room, although you're changing the use, right?
So no more dining room.
Now a music room.
Adam: Gonna be a music room.
Important for a music room is to be able to kind of close it up.
So doors will help with that.
There used to be that opening that went into the kitchen.
Kevin: Small kitchen.
Adam: That got closed off.
Kevin: I love all the sort of nods to the music, the guitars, the old radio, the flute, and again, the bold colors.
You guys went for it.
Adam: We went for it.
But that was all Rachel.
Alright, Kevin.
So if you recall, we were using this room as our primary bedroom.
Kevin: No AC, no heat back here.
Adam: This was turned into a sleeping porch or three-season porch probably sometime in the '50s.
Kevin: Yeah.
Adam: But we did a little bit of changing.
And first of all, this -- this brickwork, if you recall before, this was fully covered in paneling, some of which got turned into wainscoting.
Kevin: It was the paneled room.
The entire room was -- A little hint of it in the closet left there.
But, yeah, this was a discovery, right?
Adam: Mm-hmm.
Mark ended up coming down, helping us do some of the repairs.
Kevin: Yeah, repointed that, added some brick right there.
So you liked the discovery of the brick, obviously, 'cause here it is on display.
Adam: We like it.
Beneath this very old register is that new access to -- to AC and heat that we brought in.
Kevin: And in this room, you guys kept the original windows, the old crank-out with the key.
Still operable?
Adam: Still operable.
Kevin: That's cool.
What a feature, huh?
So how do you use this room now?
Adam: Gonna use it as an office.
Kevin: Oh, yeah.
I remember you saying you were gonna do that, right.
Adam: Comfortable and airy.
Kevin: So what's the deal with the door?
It looks like the exterior door.
Was this the front one or the back?
Adam: That was the exterior door that led from the kitchen to the rear deck.
Kevin: And what are you trying to do?
So from the office, it feels like you're going outside?
Oh, wait a second.
And so from the back side, like a wall panel.
So from here, you don't even know there's a door.
Adam: Just a little bit of trickery.
Kevin: Okay, so that means from the office, you can go down to the new basement.
Adam: Down to the basement, and then through this door, what used to be the one full bath in the house.
Kevin: Only one.
Adam: Only one.
Those are upstairs now.
And this leads to both the powder room and to the kitchen.
Kevin: And how do you feel about the kitchen?
Adam: Favorite room in the house.
Kevin: Usually is.
Adam: Kevin, if you remember, that kitchen that we -- that was here was problematic, to say the least.
Kevin: Yeah.
Adam: And that has all changed a bit.
Kevin: Yeah.
No more problems here, huh?
Wow!
What a difference.
Look at the space you guys have.
Adam: Nice and open.
Kevin: Yeah.
Alright, so let's talk about some of the design choices, 'cause you had a lot to make.
Adam: New island.
Kevin: Yeah.
Adam: In fact, these cedar posts were holding up the first floor of the house from the basement.
Tommy showed me how to turn those into island legs.
Kevin: That's a nice feeling, right?
Put your hands on that one.
Soapstone is your choice.
Adam: Soapstone on the island, countertops.
One big problem with the kitchen before, there just wasn't much storage at all.
So more of it now -- this whole wall of, uh, pantry and cabinets.
Kevin: It's like you came out of therapy and you're like, "I'll never have that little storage again."
So you've chosen an induction cooktop and, behind it, a single piece of soapstone backsplash there.
But then on either side, just what you promised -- wallpaper all the way up.
Adam: Exactly.
We decided not to do tile, stuck with the wallpaper.
Kevin: Yeah.
Adam: Should last.
Kevin: So fire behind me, water here.
Adam: The sink was over on this side.
Moved it to this new island, along with dishwasher.
Kevin: Dishwasher there, big oversized sink right there.
Love the fixture, and listen, my favorite feature of the kitchen because of its access to -- May I?
Adam: Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin: Is the window that gives you access out to the porch.
You know, you're going to serve lunch or dinner here, maybe a couple cocktails to some people seated out there.
And I think you're gonna love it when it's wide open and you've got your guests and you're entertaining.
Look at that.
Three stools.
Adam: We're very much looking forward to sitting out there and, uh, sitting over here, too.
Kevin: Yeah.
More seating here, right?
Adam: Absolutely.
Kevin: Open concept is what you asked for.
You got it.
Adam: We opened it up.
Access to the second floor, over here down to the basement.
But this is really the spot we love.
We cook a lot.
We eat almost all of our meals together.
And what better way to do that than in front of the big doors with this great view?
Kevin: What way, indeed.
Opens up to a porch that runs the length of the house.
Seating on one side, cooking, eating on the other.
You guys went with a composite deck, tongue and groove, sheds the water, but also composite siding.
So rice hulls, right?
Adam: That's right.
Kevin: Decided to leave it unpainted.
Pretty good choice.
I think it looks great with the black.
Adam: Yeah, it works well together, doesn't it?
Kevin: Yeah, and then a little modern kick with the cable railing here.
But this -- your new backyard.
That's a big change.
Adam: There was a fence in the back when we first started, but we took that out and we're thinking we're gonna leave it off for now to better enjoy the views of the park.
Kevin: I recall there was a house in the back at one point, too.
Adam: Exactly right.
Kevin: I like it better here.
Adam: I think it works better here.
♪♪ Tom: Wow, what a difference these stairs are, Rachel.
Coming up before, that narrow stairway in the middle.
I remember being here about nine months ago and coming out of this closet with Javier, looking at all the debris in there, the damaged roof.
Thankfully, you got a new roof shingle on there, everything.
It looks great.
Rachel: Yeah.
Tom: I mean, by raising that dormer, you've opened up so much space.
There's a little knee wall here.
You had the same thing on that side over there.
Now you've created a lot of space with extra room.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Tom: What are you going to do with this space right here?
Rachel: So this is going to be a playroom space for our kids at this point.
You know, we figure it can kind of grow with them.
Maybe eventually when they're a little older, this can be a place for a small couch, a TV.
But right now it's arts and crafts, kids' toys.
Um, I think they're really going to have a lot of fun here.
And right off the play area, we have two bedrooms for the kids.
They're small, but they've got incredible views -- a room for Oscar and a room for Greta.
Tom: Yeah, and each room's got its own closet, too.
Rachel: Mm-hmm, and over here is a full bathroom.
Tom: Oh, look at this.
This is great.
Rachel: Yes, this is the first of two full bathrooms that we've added to this floor.
Tom: So it must be nice that the kids have their own bathroom now.
Rachel: Yeah.
Tom: Before, you only had one bathroom for the whole house.
Rachel: I know.
Tom: Big difference.
Rachel: It is.
Let's go see the primary.
Tom: Alright.
Well, here's the pocket door that I helped Lyn put in with that frame.
Soft open and soft close.
Rachel: Works great.
Tom: Yeah, look at that.
Nice and quiet.
Rachel: Yeah.
Here's the closet.
It's kind of a work in progress.
We figured we'd live here for a while before we design it.
Tom: That's kind of smart, actually.
Live here and figure out what you want.
Rachel: Yeah.
Tom: I also like the fact that you've left that door access into the knee wall back there.
It's great for storage for suitcases and stuff like that.
Rachel: Yeah, it is.
Tom: So this is your bedroom.
This is a great space here.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Tom: So right here, I landed at the top of the stairway that took up the center of the house down there.
When you come up here, at the top, you'd enter this little room.
The knee wall was there.
You'd turn the corner, walk down a narrow hallway to the room on the other side.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Tom: It was really tough to get around.
Rachel: It was.
And now this is our bedroom.
So we got nice high ceilings.
We really like the space.
Tom: Yeah, we got rid of the knee wall, raised the dormer.
I mean, look at the size of the bathroom now.
Rachel: Yeah, and here we have our bathroom.
Tom: Yeah, I love the countertop and the sink, and it seems to me, didn't you plumb for a second sink if you wanted it later?
Rachel: Yeah.
We changed our minds.
Tom: Smart thinking.
And the tile really looks nice.
Rachel: Thanks, and I love the great view we have out the back window.
Tom: It's always nice to bring the outdoors in.
Well, the historical committee must be happy with you, because you haven't changed the look of the house from the street at all.
But in the back, you raised the dormer and you've got so much more living space.
It's really nice.
♪♪ Richard: Now, I could argue that the major transformation on this entire project is right down here in the basement.
When we got here, it was a low basement.
This was the high point right here.
And then there was this big buttress wall over here trying to hold the front wall from coming in.
What the general contractor, along with the structural engineer, decided to do was to actually lift this building and then slide it out on beams, literally, into the backyard.
And once that was out there, then they could fly in these precast, premade wall sections.
Really instant foundation.
And look at the result.
I mean, plenty of space.
It's really unbelievable usable space.
So now they also have a real utility room here.
There's washer and dryer right here.
Uh, there's a toilet right here.
There's a utility sink right here.
Who do we have here in the safe room?
Hi, guys.
Lyn: Hey, Richard, it's just us.
We're getting in this last door for the safe room.
Richard: Now, safe room, is that a big deal around here?
Javier: It is, Richard.
Remember, four years ago, this place got hit by a tornado.
So if it does happen again, they do have this room.
Richard: Great.
And what is this made of?
Is this concrete?
Lyn: Yes.
We utilized FEMA's guidelines, and it is made of wood, stainless steel, concrete, and block.
Richard: Well, I hope that I don't have to go in there.
I hope that they don't have to go in there.
Lyn: We do, too.
Richard: Good.
Well, you guys rocked it.
Lyn: Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Richard: So this is a very real living space now.
And they've thought about the future.
This is a future bathroom right here -- shower, toilet, and lavatory.
So it could be a perfect in-law apartment someday.
Now, this building started in 1929 with a basic coal- or oil-fired furnace.
And we've got that all gone, except we saved some of these beautiful cast-iron floor registers, saved them, and we reinstalled them on this new ductwork system right here that services the first floor, and they're in the floor itself.
Now, we had a furnace.
When we first got here, it was a two-year-old furnace that we didn't really want to throw away.
So we reused it.
We reused a two-year-old water heater, reinstalled them right here into this new ductwork system.
But it made a lot more sense for us to have a separate system for the top floor.
So we looked at inverter heat pumps for the top floor, one unit with ducts to the second-floor kids' bedrooms, and then one high sidewalk set in the primary.
And we were able to actually hide that in a place where you don't notice it when you walk in the room.
Now, both of those units come down with their own separate line sets, and they connect to one single condenser outside.
So here on this side of the building is those condensers.
Here is the original one that we were using.
And then this is the multi-unit for the top floor, for the second floor.
Heath?
Heath: Richard.
How are you?
Richard: What are you doing here?
Heath: Well, I've been watching the progress of the project and I saw Charlie come down, Mark come down, and Zack come down, so I felt I had to contribute something.
Richard: Well, great.
And you came at a perfect time, just in time for the... Heath: Purely a coincidence.
Richard: ...for the wrap party.
Heath: Just happened that way.
Richard: Well, cool.
I'll let you do what you're doing.
I'm going to go check the air-conditioning inside.
Heath: Sounds good.
Alright, Adam, so what we have is we have an energy monitor we're going to install outside.
This wants to go on the main feeds coming in on this disconnect.
Consists of the monitor itself.
We have the clamps that go around the feeds.
We have an antenna.
And then we have power wires that go to this.
So what I'm going to do is turn this on, and then I'll meet you inside and we'll go over how everything works.
Alright, Adam, so, the system's in place, and you can see that we actually have real-time data of how much power you're using.
And if you look closely, you can see both ACs were on.
And then when the other one kicked off, how much it dropped.
So from the temperature -- I mean, it's what, 20 degrees warmer outside from what we have in here.
You can see how much power you're actually using to get this cold.
So, we have a lot of other features with this, as well.
It's not just the energy monitoring, but we get control of the system.
We can integrate your switches like this.
Little QR code on the front you can scan and add it to your system.
Receptacles -- Say the kids are playing a gaming station and you want to set a timer and turn it off on them, that can work, as well.
And also relay modules if you want to add to the system and you don't want to upgrade your service -- solar, EV chargers, anything that grows, you can put in relay modules to do some load shedding, control the system that way.
So really very flexible.
Add as you want to go.
Nice and simple.
Adam: Awesome.
Heath: So you're all connected now.
Jenn: Alright, so nine months ago, this place looked completely different.
I mean, I'm flashing back to, like, the old fence that was here.
You had lost a tree in the tornado.
And so you've come a long way.
Rachel: Yeah.
Jenn: Let's walk through it all.
Rachel: So we have a fully new roof.
We went with this charcoal gray color to kind of contrast the brick a little more.
Paint colors are all new.
We went with a darker gray trim, a lighter gray on the siding.
Jenn: Mm-hmm.
It was like a reddy, taupe color.
Rachel: It was like reddish brown.
Jenn: Yeah, yeah.
Rachel: Kind of blended in with the brick, so this is more of a contrast.
Jenn: Right.
I love how the mortar matches and pulls with the gray and how they've, like, repointed everything and the soldier course down below.
Rachel: The masons did a great job.
Jenn: Really, really good.
And then your landscape has come alive.
Rachel: Yes.
Jenn: I mean, I know there was a lot of different things you wanted to make this happen, like this area for your vegetable garden.
Rachel: Yep, so this area, once it's not so hot, we're going to put some garden boxes here and we'll plant full-sun things, because there's no shade here.
And we'll kind of just follow the seasons.
Jenn: And that's fine.
You don't have to do everything all at once.
You know, let it -- let it happen.
These panicum grasses, this is a switch grass.
Beautiful height and texture.
Sway in the wind.
And then over here, I mean, these are salvias.
They're going to come up as purple perennials.
And, I mean, everything was just installed.
So it's going to take a little bit to settle in.
This is your Limelight hydrangea.
This one looks a little stressed out.
You know, the leaves are a little bit burnt, but I would just pluck them off and just make sure it's watered.
And you already have new growth.
So I am not worried about that at all.
And your walkways -- You got your walkways.
Rachel: Yeah, so before, there was really no walkway.
There was some sunken flagstones.
It was really uneven, really hard to get across.
So now we have this beautiful, smooth path.
Jenn: It's great access from the street, from the driveway.
And the door color -- love that blue.
It's very calming.
Rachel: Thank you.
Jenn: And so this is the hangout area.
Rachel: Yeah, and this is kind of the perfect place for it to take in the neighborhood, because we're planting some good trees here for shade.
Jenn: And this is what is gonna create a dense shade over here.
This is an Amelanchier, serviceberry.
And it's going to be understory tree.
It's a native tree.
And the fall color is amazing.
And then these yews, when you're sitting in these chairs, it's going to just -- you'll be able to peek right above it.
So it'll give you a little bit of sense of privacy.
And over here, this is a black gum tree, tupelo tree.
It's called Nyssa sylvatica.
This is the cultivar Wildfire.
It's also a native tree, but it's a cultivar of it.
This is going to be casting shade.
Going to anchor it right here in this corner.
And I think it's a perfect choice -- also native, fall colors.
And it's going to finish us off, give you shade, and you're going to be psyched.
Rachel: Great.
Jenn: Alright.
All we need to do is get the tree in the hole.
Rachel: Right.
Jenn: I brought Max, our wonderful landscape designer.
So he's going to help us dig.
Rachel: Okay.
♪♪ So, Jenn, how much deeper do we need to dig this hole?
Jenn: Well, go up to your root ball, measure it.
So top to bottom.
We're going to plant it a little bit high so we don't bury the root flare.
Take the top of the shovel, use your hand, eyeball to the bottom of the root ball.
And that's how deep you got to go.
Rachel: Okay.
♪♪ Max: I think we're probably good.
Jenn: Awesome.
So next, guys, I want to add some starter fertilizer.
This is a micro rhizome.
And it's just going to give, like, a little vitamin boost to the plant to get the roots stimulated.
Alright.
So that pack's for you.
We'll sprinkle it in the hole, around the hole like that.
And... And the rest of the soil's already been amended in all these other planting beds, okay?
So next we -- Here you go.
I want Rachel to pick the face of the tree, meaning how you want it situated, what side of the tree you want facing your seating area and the street.
And we have these tree hooks that we latch on to this wire basket, and it'll help pull us in the hole.
Rachel: Okay.
Max: Ready?
Jenn: Yep.
Max: You come around.
I'm gonna come towards you in just a second.
Jenn: Okay.
Ready?
Max: Yeah.
Go ahead.
You keep rolling.
Rachel: Ooh.
So gentle.
Jenn: Oh, yeah.
That's a beauty.
Max: Then we'll -- Jenn: Oh, yes.
Rachel: Uh, you know, I think it looks good, guys.
Max: We might give it just a little spin but not much.
Rachel: Okay.
Jenn: See?
Just a little tweak makes it.
Rachel: Oh, yeah.
That looks great.
♪♪ Max: We'll build a little bit of a tree ring around it once we're done, put your irrigation soaker line back in.
We'll be done.
Jenn: Alright, so just -- we don't want to suffocate the trunk.
It's called a root flare, and we want it to be exposed.
Yay!
Awesome.
Rachel: Yeah.
Kevin: There's our hardworking crew.
Alright, and our beautiful tree.
That's looking nice.
Adam: It looks great.
Kevin: Yeah.
Jenn: Adds a little scale.
Adam: You guys were out here in the heat.
Please.
Rachel: Yeah.
Kevin: Cold drink.
Rachel: Thank you.
Kevin: Alright.
Cheers.
Jenn: Yeah.
Kevin: Well done.
Rachel: Yeah.
Jenn: Well done.
Kevin: And to you, Adam and Rachel, well done, as well.
So, a hectic nine months on the project.
A lot went down.
Adam: Mm-hmm.
Kevin: Took that house, picked it up, moved it to the backyard, flew in that foundation, moved the house back on top of it.
And then transformations inside and out -- new brickwork outside, fireplace inside, bathrooms and bedrooms.
Adam: Two full bathrooms.
Kevin: Anything you want.
New paint colors, reconfiguration, that beautiful kitchen, porch off the back, big backyard, terrific.
And all of it thanks to a lot of hard work from a lot of people.
Rachel: Yeah, it took so many people with so much skill to get this done, and we really appreciate all of them so much.
Adam: Especially our GCs, Lyn and Javier.
Could not have done it without them.
Kevin: Leaders of the band.
A big band it was.
And today's a different kind of moving day -- moving in.
Excited to be back home?
Adam: Thrilled.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Can't wait.
Kevin: Good.
Alright, well, that is a wrap for us.
But don't worry, we've got another great one coming.
It is a Colonial Revival in Ridgewood, New Jersey.
So until then, and for all of us here from "This Old House," this is a wrap from East Nashville, Tennessee.
Alright.
Let's have ourselves a party.
Jenn: I love Nashville.
Kevin: Lyn, Javier, well done.
♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ Kevin: Next time on "This Old House," we're hopping on the turnkpike and heading back to the Garden State to meet a family who wants to update their 1930s Colonial, keeping its charm, but expanding its footprint.
Tom: This is gonna be great.
Rachel: Yeah.
We're excited.
Kevin: And general contractor Zack Dettmore and his crew are up for the task, reuniting with us for this Ridgewood renovation.
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Funding for THIS OLD HOUSE is provided by The Home Depot and Renewal By Andersen.